There's a strange hinterland of thought which is very easily traversed as a Christian, wherein tendency can be to either completely de-emphasize the supernatural nature of our beliefs or to fixate entirely on the supernatural aspect of beliefs to an extent which degrades consistency.
Continually, it occurs that fear is generally the culprit to blame for either extreme. People unsettled by the idea of something existing beyond their ability to comprehend, beyond their ability to somehow thereby "control for," are going to be far more apt to (generally unconsciously) restrict approach to Christ and all He is to a matter which can be comprehended intellectually, without allowing for "modern day acts of the apostles"-or some, in terms of various creative, "miraculous" manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The whole "seeing is believing" mentality just expanded slightly to include the "logical conclusions" which can be reached in terms of who Jesus Christ is, given historically sound research into His claims and the state of matters which resulted. So, there's slight duplicity inherent, in acknowledging that He is who He said He was, thus accepting the Bible at its word, to the extent of believing the miraculous events recorded did take place...while yet arguing that such things can't possibly be the case, today. Despite that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And that we've not entirely changed, either, except that perhaps we have even less faith than ever before (wondering about that, given that even in the day of Christ's incarnation, He said that even Sodom would have been spared if the same miracles had been performed therein, as in Capernaum--implies a degradation of belief/faith).
Whereas, alternately, people who moreso tend to find the whole of observed reality as intrinsically incomprehensible, except for by way of subjective experience, will be more apt to over-emphasive the supernatural as a means of detracting from the sense of being overwhelmed by all else which is. Along the lines of avoidance as a means of coping (same as with the above, only in the opposite direction, ultimately)--wanting to entirely throw off all of reality, conceived of as being experienced in moments of approaching the unseen, the unknown, thus suspending a sense of overwhelming inevitability which seems inherent of involvement in physical reality...asserting dominance (perceived control), still, only in the reverse direction. Clinging to the "supernatural" as a means of regaining a sense of dominance, this way. Rather than with the prior, who regain a sense of dominance by refuting the supernatural.
Both are misguided.
God does still miraculously manifest His creative power in us, after all. Salvation is the most blessed occurrence of His love manifested supernaturally. So, why would all the rest have ceased?
Internal/external locus of control comes to mind, in relation to the division between intellectual and supernatural faith. Which, both ways...still equate to restriction from fully believing that God is sovereign. He can, has, does, and will speak for Himself. We're meant to follow, to obey, to seek, to love. To obey.
First and foremost, to obey. The rest comes with that. He produces fruit in and through us, perhaps ofttimes regardless of our varying degrees of disobedience.. ..yet, how much more, if one were wholly obedient?
John 5
30"I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
So, even Christ was subject to the will of the Father. How much more, then, should we be? And how much more would we accomplish, if we were to constantly look to Christ's example in obedience?
Rather than debating over which course is right, internally. Rather than trying to decide between the best of all options. Rather than attempting to prove or disprove the validity of methods of worship and practical theology, as to assert one's own perception as sound.
Maybe just to pray through the all, and let the Lord lead?
I started praying for discernment, prior to leaving for Tampa in 2013. And continued to pray for discernment (yes, prior to experiencing conversion). Discernment, direction, and obedience. Those were the three continual prayers of 2013, into 2014. Lifelong processes, all.
But the bits with discernment--I didn't even know what it meant, only that it was necessary, and not even knowing how to come by it, the only course seemed to pray.
Much of last spring and early summer was given to examination, cross-examination, and re-examination of various thoughts, unctions, designs, and promptings which arose over the course of increasingly devoted Bible study and prayer. Continual reference to John's writing about testing the spirits. Continued reference to the New Testament accounts of false prophets and lying spirits, and the utmost necessity to test them all.
It got to a point, once, where I finally realized that.. ..as far as John's (and Paul's) assertions that we would know the Spirit of God in that it confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.. ..and that Jesus is Lord..
1 John 4
1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1 Corinthians 121Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
..that isn't just an attestation, though. Not merely a statement of those things, but an internal witness which boldly proclaims them with joy and hope and peace, each inherent of the testimony of His Lordship and of His time spent here on earth, crucified, and risen to reign.
That's the vital distinction.
Because even the demons do actually believe, and tremble.
James 2
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
...and I know from personal experience that Satan does indeed oft appear as an angel of light. Attempting to appear innocuous and helpful, even--offering companionship and assistance, and even admitting, if in rather roundabout ways, the truth of Christ.
2 Corinthians 11
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Just, after having initially begun to attempt to discern the spiritual goings-on being experienced, there came a point of realization that looking to whether spirit testified to Christ Jesus as Lord was a matter of tone as well as message. Nothing mocking, nothing resentful, nothing bitter, nothing sharp-tongued, nothing off-color, nothing oppressive, nothing demeaning... ...only loving sincerity.
For some reason, though, it seems we're all a bit willy-nilly, back-and-forth about how much of anything we're "willing" to experience, as goes the truth of the Lord. Tending to extremes on one side or the other of the spectrum, in regard to His manifest power and wisdom--wanting to know all of one, or all of the other...all power, or all wisdom.
A tangent consideration along these lines, though, is that it's not possible to know all of God. He is infinite. We are not. So, it's not exactly possible to "experience" all which He is, while still possible to know and experience the truth of His saving grace, the truth of His sovereignty, and the awesome power of His existence.
People who are more comfortable with theology than with miracles are fully and entirely well-kept there, so long as the Lord wills they go no further (...and...so long as the Spirit which indwells and leads them is the Holy Spirit and none other).
People who are more desirous of miraculous manifestations rather than theologically sound approaches to understanding Christ are well-settled in place, so long as the Lord allows they not have need to tread elsewhere (...and...so long as the Spirit which indwells and leads them is the Holy Spirit and none other).
Someone has to be the hands...someone needs to be the feet. That we can both reach out to touch others and also traverse the miles so as to approach them. The body has multiple members, yeah.
However, the point of initial consideration is along the lines of this:
If we go with one, yet not the other, are we doing ourselves a disservice by being duplicitous in our approach to who God is, for attempting to view Him only according to what we're comfortable with? God is who He is, regardless of how restricted our approach to Him. If we're only willing to see Him as a distant effective ruler, loving and innately concerned, yet fairly hands-off aside of having left us His word to read from centuries past... ...that may be entirely sufficient unto salvation.
And if we're only willing to see Him as the sovereign, uncontrollable spiritual force which miraculously heals rifts in our bodies, minds, spirits, and societies, without abjectly studying the thoughts of those who came before us, except for continued regard for the Bible... ...that may be entirely sufficient unto sanctification.
But why not both?
Why not know Him as both the source of all wisdom and the creative force yet manifesting?
Really, either way, it's still a course into the "unknown"...in terms of coming to know the God of the universe. As a matter of developing a working knowledge(/a relationship) of(/with) Him.
Which is the core component of salvation--that practical knowledge of Him. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in other words, which is the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, and that which the world does not and cannot know (for having not ever received).
Acts 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Romans 8
9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
John 14
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 16
12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Jeremiah 31
34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Isaiah 54
13And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
Different folks may just be more apt to yet maintain somewhat a "hands-off" approach to fellowship with the Holy Spirit. One wherein the revelations mentioned in that passage of John 16 and in Isaiah 54 might tend moreso to be wholly equated to whatsoever comes by way of exegesis of Scripture. As opposed to a more literal interpretation of those verses.
Regardless, experience has shown that the only sure way to test the spirits is to refer to Scripture. To test tone, to test consistency, to test merit of message...even as to test the Holy Spirit, honestly (very reverently acknowledged as a practice, given how sacred a blessing it is to be indwelt; thus, wholly respecting God's infallibility and sovereignty, yet acknowledging my own inherent weakness and fallibility, testing has come as a matter of course only for knowing my own inconsistencies).
Just... ...we all seem to so want sound (established/proven) methodology according to which we may proceed unhindered in our search for God. And I've heard passing mention, at least once, from one of revered teacher whose relationship with the Lord has proven inspirational (yielding further insight into who the Lord is).. ..wherein there was some distinct amount of frustration experienced in hearing admonition of the abject necessity to be led by the Holy Spirit, without any practical direction on how to do so.
And I've yet to hear any further mention of that precise topic, from that person. Nor have I heard anyone much mention anything resembling the same, besides, without it being something which is... ...kind of impersonal, in terms of the Holy Spirit, or entirely mystical, in terms of the same.
Not a very balanced approach, in other words.
I've been praying about that, for a few months.
The thing is, though, the experience of being led is going to differ for each of us.
Same as.. ..say, you live in Alaska, but you've gotten yourself lost in the Amazon forest.. ..you're on foot. ...an experienced, wholly knowledgeable, absolutely capable and patient guide finds you and takes on the project of walking you home.
..and, say, I live in the Andes, and end up stranded amongst aborigine in Australia. And a guide--even the same guide... ...finds me, and takes on the project of accompanying me on a trek home, also..
We're each in a position of having the same need (for the sake of the metaphor, transportation is only by foot or by way of hitching random rides)--to arrive at destination of what equates to our personal manifestation of "home" on this earth.
We each have an origin and a destination, according to our own individual directives and needs. But the manners of both progress and of travel are necessarily going to differ not only in means (to some extent--one is necessarily going to entail traversing water, not necessarily so with the other, although possible) but also in time required and direction pursued.
Which, for the purposes of the example, all that latter probably seems entirely simple. Of course you'd have to travel in a relatively different direction to get from the South American rainforest to the frozen wilds of the Alaskan tundra, as opposed to traversing the expanse between the arid beauty of the Australian wild unto the frigid heights of the towering Andes. And, also completely simple a concept--it's entirely different sorts of terrain to be transversed, thus requiring different sorts of pace and method of crossing (Indian Ocean, much?). And because of all that lattermost here, it's likely that progress might go slower at different stages for each of us, than the other. Certain spans of progress may seem so prolonged as to not constitute notable progress (say, what-with walking the entirety of Texas?).
But it would all constitute progress, nonetheless. So long as one step follows the last. One step forward. One at a time.
That's one of the necessary underpinning considerations, when addressing the idea of what being led by the Spirit entails. He leads us each according to the purposes unto which we are called by God, so the likelihood that equivalent differences in progress and method of progression/leading are adapted to each our individual, distinct needs is wholly inherent the overall schematic.
(again, another example: you wouldn't direct someone's efforts to extricate themselves from a man-made well in quite the same way you'd guide someone along their exodus from a multi-level shopping mall--even different types of intervention likely would be necessary)
The same Spirit, though, regardless. The same God. The same Lord of all--Christ Jesus who reigns forever.
When it comes to limiting one's own perspective, to any degree knowingly as by course of response to anxieties invoked by a fear of the unknown (i.e., rationalizing against contructs presented in the Bible)... ...then, there's a double-mindedness inherent of the process of seeking God which is unnecessary and potentially damaging to the experience of progress. Not always detrimental, on the whole. Sometimes just a limitation in terms of what growth is possible, to which extents.
But, again--different parts of the same body, so some are given to each.
There's just that line of differentiation, thereabouts, which is distinguished by the Holy Spirit. He's the authority which ordains us, who calls us, and who directs us--empowering us to the work, to the call, to the purpose.
So, ultimately, the only way of distinguishing whether "too much is too much" or "too much is just enough," so far as limitation on consideration goes, or restriction to certain beliefs about God goes, or a reluctance to approach God except for in very particular ways goes... ...the Holy Spirit is the only one who can make the distinction, between what's right, what's off-base, and what completely needs disbanded.
Just...
...one tendency by which we restrict our own ability to know God is according to our anxieties in relation to how we're willing to perceive Him. What we're comfortable with. As opposed to a desire to know Him for who He is, beyond our ever-limited conceptions...regardless of how discomfitting, how distressing, how absolutely terrifying, how soundly unsettling, and how profoundly beyond comprehension He ever truly is.
I just... ...I want to know Him. Not someone's idea of Him. But...Him. Who He says He is, as in the Bible. And who He is, in creation and every day.
And I can conceive of no way to do so, except as to ask Him. ...except as to just seek Him, openly. Ardently.
Without restriction. Without limitation.
Not worrying about what might come, except to know the joy of having come to know Him even a minute amount. And knowing that He is worthy and wonderful to be sought, glorified, worshipped, and adored. He alone is so desired to be known.
And it comes to write of the frustrations experienced, in seeking Him those different ways--in going primarily, at one point, through Pentecostal/Full Gospel/Assembly of God conceptions.. ..and through bits of the means and ways of Baptist, Methodist, and Catholic conceptions. And there have been clear impressions of Him, through each, at varying points. Even as partially obscured--still, at points of having known nothing of Him.. ..even to hear His name was something.
So, now, there's just seemed to become apparent a reclusiveness...a rejection in part, in accordance with a double-mindedness which would proclaim Him yet deny His totality (for being unable to entirely comprehend, then so to discount)..
...and that double-mindedness, though, is as a kind of doubt. Doubting that He is still who He ever has been. Who He is, even as He so chooses to express or refrain.
Rather than always seeking a clearly definable delineation, then, better to have faith as to let the Spirit lead...into all truth.
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